“We should all strive for the delegalization of PiS,” mused Andrzej Rozenek during a conversation with Fakt. Rozenek, a close associate and deputy of Jerzy Urban at the Nie weekly, is known for his advocacy of freedom—so much so that he once proudly boasted about drinking vodka with another shining example of democracy, Vladimir Putin. According to Rozenek, under PiS rule, “Kaczyński was introducing a creeping dictatorship in Poland,” and had he not lost power, “we would have a full-fledged dictatorship by now.”

Rozenek, who after his time with the post-communist left ultimately found a home in the Civic Platform—currently not too distant from his previous political affiliations—claims that one of the main tools used by PiS to build its alleged dictatorship was the Hermes software, purchased during the party’s rule. According to Oko.press, a source considered credible by Rozenek, Hermes supposedly replaced the infamous Pegasus spyware.

“I believe this is an extension of the Pegasus scandal. They simply replaced one electronic weapon with another. When the Pegasus affair blew up, and the whole world started talking about it—not to mention that the Israeli manufacturer revoked our license to use the software—they switched to Hermes, another platform that enabled the exact same thing. And they used this weapon,” Rozenek declared. He seemed to overlook the fact that Hermes, like Pegasus, also originates from Israel, and even Attorney General Bodnar has ruled out unauthorized use of Pegasus.

Undeterred, Rozenek continued to dream about the consequences of these allegations, stating that if it were proven (though he personally seems to have no doubts) that Israeli surveillance systems were used to illegally spy on “judges from Iustitia and Themis” as well as “independent journalists,” it could justify a motion to outlaw PiS.

“If we prove that PiS used intelligence services to attack political opponents—because that’s what the Pegasus scandal is about—it would fulfill the constitutional criteria for banning a party that violates the country’s constitutional order,” he concluded, while admitting in passing that such proof has yet to be found.

The so-called Vice-Urban (as Rozenek was once commonly referred to) has no doubts, however, that PiS should be banned.

“We should all work toward this goal for our own safety and to ensure that no one ever again dares to use such tools against their political rivals,” he told Fakt, displaying a rather peculiar sense of humor in the process.

That sense of humor is something Rozenek seems to share with his late boss, whom he bid farewell with a sentimental tribute after his passing:

“Goodbye. A Man, a journalist, a political analyst, a writer… A Friend has left us,” he wrote, summarizing both his relationship with Jerzy Urban and his legacy.

To be fair, Urban wasn’t the only figure Rozenek spoke of with reverence. Among those he has praised with due respect is none other than Vladimir Putin, whom he met in 2010 during the Valdai Club discussion, an annual gathering where Putin engages with individuals interested in Russia. Reflecting on this meeting four years later, Rozenek revealed that he was “one of the few Poles who drank vodka with Putin.”

The Russian dictator made quite an impression on Rozenek (perhaps as much as every General Secretary of the Communist Party did on his old mentor). In a 2014 interview with naTemat (a website founded, let’s not forget, by Tomasz Lis), Rozenek expressed his admiration for Putin:

“I must say, he was really well-prepared [when answering questions]. He spoke off the cuff, rattling off numbers and dates in an incredibly convincing manner. He is a politician well-prepared for his role. It was clear he wasn’t in his position by accident.”

As a person, Putin behaved like “one of the guys.”

“From the very beginning, he broke the ice. When we started eating, they served an appetizer that everyone struggled with, chasing it around their plates with tiny forks. But Putin simply picked it up with his hands. Everyone noticed, and it immediately broke the formal atmosphere. Suddenly, the tension of sitting at the same table as the prime minister of a global power disappeared. It turned out he was a flesh-and-blood person, not just an institution,” Rozenek reminisced.

The foundation of good relations is adopting the same system of values. After all, Putin and his conversation partners were talking about democracy. Democracy as “we understand it.”